are we all sinners ??

[josephdc]

---

Sin is what you think of it.

If I resolve in my mind that it's okay for me to torture someone, would that mean that I wouldn't be committing a sinful act?

[josephdc]

that's an open-minded view of the subject of SIN, sir --- i like it.

@fin: i recommend you read "The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins. there is a chapter there that talks about the 'Moral Zeitgeist'. it'll answer your question as to how humans define RIGHT or WRONG based on a Darwinian perspective.

According to that view, morality is just a product of evolution, right bro?

So I guess what "Moral Zeitgeist" would mean, if it's true, is that morality is a by-product of socio-biological evolution; a sort of social convention or tool that helps the human specie adapt, reproduce and therefore survive. My question is, would that imply that morality is simply subjective and undergoes change over time?

[josephdc]

Self-Inflicted Nonsense

How is it self-inflicted?

[josephdc]

there is.. it is so because it is in the best interest of the majority.. it is no way of divine guidance...
it varies from culture to culture...

tell that to the mongols.. they were violent and barbaric...

the best thing in life is to crush your enemy. see them driven before you and hear the lamentations of their women...

but it sucks a lot to be at the recieving end of the gun...

if you wish to avoid war.. be prepare for it.. nobody bullies someone who fights back...

But isn't that a value judgment? What you're saying in effect is that the Mongols were wrong by being violent, right? But if God does not exist, there's really no objective "right" and "wrong", and you seemed to admit that. So what becomes of your statement?

[bcasabee]

Just to clarify things here:

When I say, the guy is a born genius, it doesn't mean he already got a PHD in theoretical physics the instant he went out of the womb. It means the moment he was born, he has all the potential to become a big hit in the future.

I just hope and pray you can relate that to the we are born sinners thing.

common sense??

a new born baby by DEFAULT is an automatic sinner.

yeah righ, thats bible sense.

[AmorsoloX]

But isn't that a value judgment? What you're saying in effect is that the Mongols were wrong by being violent, right? But if God does not exist, there's really no objective "right" and "wrong", and you seemed to admit that. So what becomes of your statement?

yup.. there is really no such thing as right and wrong... people just make up stuff...

whats right to you maybe wrong to somebody else....

[AmorsoloX]

If I resolve in my mind that it's okay for me to torture someone, would that mean that I wouldn't be committing a sinful act?

ive see a movie like these before..

where the soldiers torture the enemy to get information which in the end save a lot of their comrade's lives...

which is seen.. the torture? or saving your friend's life?.... if torture is bad, then saving your friend is also bad...

the ends always justify the means...

[TEDA]

yup.. there is really no such thing as right and wrong... people just make up stuff...

whats right to you maybe wrong to somebody else....

mau nang dli ta dapat mag dalos2 ug buhat sa usa kbutang
kung para nto sakto ta, para sa uban sayup ta.
sakto ta kai ghuna2 ta sa atong kahimtang
but for others who think sa ilang side pd is sayup ta
we may commit sins, and may not be forgiven by other people
but as long as you, yourself, forgive and nagmahay. then its over.
unsa pmai lalison? na bxg balibalihon pna nmu ang kalibutan
people by nature just think of their own selves

[AmorsoloX]

mau nang dli ta dapat mag dalos2 ug buhat sa usa kbutang
kung para nto sakto ta, para sa uban sayup ta.
sakto ta kai ghuna2 ta sa atong kahimtang
but for others who think sa ilang side pd is sayup ta
we may commit sins, and may not be forgiven by other people
but as long as you, yourself, forgive and nagmahay. then its over.
unsa pmai lalison? na bxg balibalihon pna nmu ang kalibutan
people by nature just think of their own selves

amen to that.. people are naturally selfish.. and for our own benefit too.. if we werent selfish.. we would never prosper as a species.....

[bcasabee]

^^^Why? Are we prospering as a species? No we are not and so IMHO your self-centered principles are flawed.