Pope Benedict XVI to meet Society of St. Pius X leader.

[s.n.m.p.]

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Pope to meet schismatic leader, ultra-traditionalists say

First posted 06:56pm (Mla time) Aug 28, 2005
Agence France-Presse




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CASTELGANDOLFO, Italy--Pope Benedict XVI, who has made reconciliation among Christians a priority of his pontificate, will on Monday meet the leader of a schismatic group of ultra-traditionalists, according to a statement by the group.
The Vatican has neither confirmed nor denied that the meeting will take place, but if it does it could be the first step to bringing the defiant traditionalists back into the Catholic fold, observers said.

Bernard Fellay, the superior general of the Priestly Fraternity of Saint Pius X, based in Econe, Switzerland, will meet the pope at his country residence here, the Fraternity said in a brief communique August 24.

Fellay was one of four men illegally consecrated as bishops by the late leader of the ultra-traditionalists, Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre.

That led to the excommunication in 1988 of Lefebvre, Fellay and the other three illegal bishops and anyone who follows them, meaning that the Vatican considers the breakaway traditionalists to be heretics.

Since then, Fellay has said he held a brief meeting with Pope John Paul II in December, 2000 at which nothing of importance was discussed. But he has reportedly recently been in touch with Colombian Dario Castrillon Cardinal Hoyos, a pillar of conservatism at the Vatican.

Various sources said the cardinal, who in 1988 was appointed head of a commission called Ecclesia Dei with the task of ending the schism, would be present at Monday's meeting.

The Lefebvrists reject the sweeping changes introduced by the Second Vatican Ecumenical Council in the 1960s, and particularly the decision to abolish the old Tridentine form of the mass and replace Latin with vernacular languages more accessible to the ordinary faithful.

Lefebvre died in 1991, since when the ultra-traditionalist movement, which sees the Vatican as too liberal, has become entrenched around the world.

In a gesture of conciliation, Castrillon Hoyos celebrated mass in Latin according to the Tridentine rite in the Roma basilica of Saint Mary Major five years ago. But the Fraternity replied by saying it did "not intend at all to modify its principles and its policy. The so abundant fruits of graces on the one hand, the conciliar disaster on the other hand, only reinforce its determination to preserve the Catholic tradition."

That position has barely altered since, with Fellay stating that if he were received by the pope he would again insist on restoration of the Tridentine mass and a lifting of the excommunication.

"Those are the two preliminary conditions" for reunion, he said recently.

The election of Benedict XVI in April was a "glimmer of hope," Fellay said. As Vatican head of doctrine, the German-born pope, the former cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, made no secret of his attachment to traditionalism or to the use of Latin.

He was the architect of a ruling 20 years ago that allowed reintroduction of Latin in the mass under the strict control of the bishops. Today, the Vatican could allow "greater possibilities" to celebrate the mass according to the pre-Vatican Council rite, Archbishop Jean-Pierre Ricard of Bordeaux told the French Catholic daily La Croix. Ricard is a member of the Ecclesia Dei commission.

On the other hand, since his election, Benedict XVI has affirmed his attachment to the teachings of the second Vatican Ecumenical Council, the bete-noir of the ultra-traditionalists, and has put ecumenism at the top of his list of priorities. The Lefebvrists reject ecumenism, too.

During his trip to Cologne earlier this month, the pope also visited a synagogue and a mosque in gestures deeply displeasing to the ultra-traditionists. It was not what they had expected of him, since as Cardinal Ratzinger, Benedict had opposed his predecessor John Paul II's famous interfaith meeting in Assisi in 1986.

[s.n.m.p.]

I am very much elated with this development. I hope the Catholic Church will formally renew ties with SSPX. I myself would like to go back to the traditional Tridentine Mass. I guess many Catholics now are not as devout as before because of the non encouragement of the Tridentine Mass.

I hope Pope Benedict XVI, being a conservative himself should understand and come to terms with Bishop Fellay. However if they cant really agree on hte terms of reunification, I will still stick with the Vatican. I also Fellay will be enlightened so that everything will end well.

For me at least one Mass on Sunday should be celebrated in Tridentine tradition. I for one, uhaw na kaayo aning Tridentine Mass.

[mannyamador]

The latin mass is allowed under certain conditions. It doesn't seem to bother very many people. I hope things work out. I think the new Pope is charismatic in his own way.

[pandisal]

hmmm, is it really that good to hear a latin (non native) mass? whats the difference except that we'll not
gonna understand what the priest is saying?

[s.n.m.p.]

Ayaw pag bout unsa ako gusto. You are not Catholic anyway.Â* Even if it is Latin it still the same.Â* I want latin mass because I am a traditionalist. Preference ra na magdaug.

I want a solemn mass but I dont say we should also abolish the vernacular mass. I just hope at least on mass in Sunday should be i latin as a variation and for trditionalist like me.Â* Â*

[pandisal]

wala ko nagbuot... i respect your opinion... but what the use benefit of it other than a tradition.

[HoundedbyHeaven]

To pandisal:

I am somewhat moved by your assertion of respect for s.n.m.p.'s opinion, moved enough to believe that you are not engaging in some sort of rhetorical questioning.

However, s.n.m.p. is right in pointing out that non-Catholics would find it extremely difficult to understand the Latin or Tridentine Mass. Heck, a lot of Catholics who got used to or grew up hearing only the Novus Ordu (like me) share the same difficulty somewhat. You see, pandisal, if you are a Catholic who reads the Bible, especially New Testament, the language won't bother you as much-- that is, if you are such a Catholic. Put it this way, it's like watching Mel Gibson's film "The Passion of the Christ"; we are so familiar with the story so much removing the subtitles won't even bother us the same bit. The Latin or Tridentine mass you see has far such reverence and solemnity and piety compared to the Novus Ordu, through and through. This is why there some Catholics who prefer the Tridentine.

Um, s.n.m.p., was the Tridentine Rite ever translated to the Visayan dialect, like the Novus Ordu? I once heard a mass at Capitol Parish Church where the entire Eucharistic Prayer was spoken in Latin, was that the Tridentine?

But again, to a non-Catholic, particularly an anti-Catholic, (and I'm in no way alleging that you are any of these) who gets so indignant at the sight of Catholics kneeling during Mass, it will be extremely difficult to understand the Tridentine, much less tolerate, even lesser accept.

Shalom.

[s.n.m.p.]

@ houndedbyheaven:

Bro, my understanding about trientine is that it is an all Latin Mass. The priest presides the mass with his back facing the people.

I once saw a somewhat Tridentine mass celebrated at EWTN but the priest, Joseph Mary, said it was the mass in Chaldean rite (Iraqi Uniate Church).

But I think the masses at Vatican is close to the Tridentine except that the Bishop is facing the Congregation. Maybe the rite of some Uniate Orthodox is the Tridentine mass.

I guess the latin mass should be incorporated even at least one mass every Sunday. There some distinct "holiness" when you hear Kyrie elieson instead of Lord have mercy, Agnus Dei quitollis peccata mundi instead of Lamb of godd who takes away the sins of the world. I know there is not much difference but the Latin sounds like holier to hear. Right?

As to pandisal, I bet we just have to educate him and the rest about the richness of our faith. Thats why I never transferred to born again groups. Aside from doctrinal issues, I will miss tridentine mass which will never ever will happen in protestant churches or groups.

[Von!-x]

I heard my father told me stories about hearing mass in Latin when he was very young. The priests do not face the public. He also said his grandma is a "manabtan", who lead latin prayers. These prayers are said to have been verbally passed on to her. My father remembered her grandma to be very pious and prayerful while inside the church, but a different person outside.
When he asked her the meaning of those latin words, she simply could not tell. His own research lead him to identify those prayers as psalms, "the Lord's prayer", creeds, etc..

[arnoldsa]

The Opus Dei sometimes conducts tridntine masses.. I attended once at the chapel in Sugbo Study Center..